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Going cold turkey

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  • Going cold turkey

    Hi everyone. so well, my problem has been that I was not been able to get to sleep and / or to stay asleep even when I did managed to get some sleep as well as I have been feeling tired the day after that. So, I have been spiraling down to a list of sleep inducing drugs that I have made and it seems that all that happens it is that I am very rapidly gaining some tolerance to them which means that I need to use more and more or to use a stronger medication if I need to get some sleep. The last night I have had my medical pot and I have slept fine. very well, today it is the first day of getting off from that crap and I am really not expecting to get any much sleep, of course. However, I really hope that in a week or so I am going to win otherwise if I don’t I would be dead until then.


    I have to say that I have had a strategy that I really thought it is going to work. I have taken some stuff that some people claimed that they took every night for a lot of years and it still has worked for them. the problem is that for me, if I am using it 10 times (which means 10 nights) – it is losing its effectiveness nearly completely. In fact to avoid such a rapid tolerance I have even took something different each night of the week and I was thinking that I would not get any tolerance this way. however I was not that lucky and I was still getting it and cross tolerance too. now I can easily say this: I can try something brand new for me and I know that it is going to work, however only a little bit (in the best scenario because there are cases when it won’t work at all from the very beginning).


    I am not that sure, however this might not be as hard if comparing to a long term opiate or maybe benzo problem, however it is feeling very miserable and frustrating to lay in my bed all night long and then morning comes and I am still having no sleep. If this happens once, and the next day I am tired all day and then at night I sleep like a baby that would be fine. however, that’s not the case. All I have is that I might grab an hour or maybe 2 here and there. I also can say that I am not trusting myself to drive when I am sleep deprived that is why I have stocked up on food. I have to say that I am fortunate that I do not need to go to a job now, however I do know that this is going to be very tough. I really hope that in the end I would have a win, I do know that initially it would be amazingly hard, however I hope that in the end it would be fine.

  • #2

    Hello there Olcou, it really sounds to me that you are not doing well at all and I am truly sorry or you. I need to ask you: can you get some professional help. that would surely make a change. Of course I am not so sure how it is your money supply and general financial situation or how this is going to affect your work situation but this really might change. Maybe EAP in case it is available. plus, obviously I only have read (not heard) what you are saying, however your post really sound to me like you are really down. I do understand that it does seem logical since you’re going through that but that’s no good… I am not a doctor and I am not a therapist or whatever else, but I am still sure that you should not do anything too impulsive without calling somebody that you know very well or “to play the tape through”.


    Trust me I am really sorry that you’re going through this because I have also went through something similar and my only recommendation for you now would be (trust me I know that it may be hard) to make a gratitude list. This has really helped me in the past when I have been in that funky downer negative thinking mode and I really hope that this might help you either. good luck!


    • #3

      From another insomniac here to another one I have to tell you that I am really very sorry that you are going through this right now. trust me I do know how it is, how hard and how it is rough, I do understand you very well. unfortunately, as I said, as you, I am also trying to find a solution for this so if I do find one, as soon as I do it, I am going to keep in mind that here’s another one who’s searching for it and I would let you know about it. up until then, unfortunately, I don’t have anything that might help you, no suggestions. I just wanted to let you know that you’re not the only one thinking that “maybe” this would make you feel at least a bit better knowing that you’re not alone. Hope we’re gonna find something in the end.


      • #4

        Hello there OP and everybody else. I wanted to chime in and to say that I do know it really sucks that you are now getting through that. I would really want to help you or at least I would really try doing so. Have you always suffered from insomnia and this is why you have used those sleep inducing medicines at all? either way, by using those medicines can exacerbate insomnia in the very end, pretty much like for example using anxiolytics can cause rebound anxiety. that is why I would really recommend you not to expect to have your “win” onto your insomnia in a few nights, but as much as it seems to me – you don’t seem to expect. In fact, by the way you write about it I am pretty sure that you don’t anyway, but I am just saying because that would be a big mistake.


        Besides, something else “just saying” would be… (and I am sorry if this may seem pretty annoying due to the fact that I am also pretty sure you are aware of the following) but, have you tried exercising? I guess you do know that exercising helps with insomnia. When you simply type in search in google “methods to fight off insomnia” exercising is among the first ones.


        For instance, if you are weaning off benzos it can cause a lot of insomnia (which it seemed to me that you do know about it). however, it can also cause anxiety about being able to sleep before it is even the time to sleep. Plus to all of this, you are waking up and you are not feeling well rested (in some cases barely rested) and you are not ready to face the day at all. plus, there are also other hypnotic drugs that can have pretty much the same side effects either.


        This is the reason why I am recommending exercising. I always recommend exercising for people who suffer from insomnia. Of course, when you’re experiencing such kind of situation you can’t prepare for Olympic games, you need to start slowly with some very light cardio and after that to try to start pushing yourself as soon as you are feeling up to do so. This is going to make you more able to sleep and not only due to the fact that it is tiring you out but also because of the endorphins etc. etc. can help eliminate the issues that you may be having from using those sleep medications (especially long term). As soon as you are going to start to get over that initial (big) lack of energy and to push yourself then this is when you are going to feel that you are going to have more energy. Plus to it, when reaching this point your sleep patterns would already (most likely) be somehow improved. Besides, I also have to ask you: are you only using RX drugs?? Or you are already using valerian root, kava kava and so on and so forth?? If you haven’t then you really should because even though they may not consistently work either, there are some people who are using them during their withdrawal periods from the prescription medications.


        I have to say that I have only had some mild insomnia naturally (which is not so annoying), however as a side effect of the drugs I was using, I have had some pretty severe insomnia that it is coming and it is going now pretty randomly.


        There’s something else: is your lack of the job a temporary thing or an ongoing one? are you good money wise? I ask this because I do know that makes this kinda crap that much worse…. Besides, there’s something else I have forgot to mention but I would really like to add. It is the fact that most of the sleep inducing medications are actually resulting in less REM sleep (weed, benzos as well as benzo like medications all do it) which is the most restful kind of sleep. That is why, as you are withdrawing now, even if you are not taking any active steps like for example exercising, you are going to natural get more restful sleep. But, as usual, not right away of course… this should be kept in mind.


        P. S. I guess that I have to make one more note here which I also forgot: I really do not think that you should do any exercise at all in case your intake of any dependence causing medicines has been a pretty large amount and for a pretty long period of time. I am saying so because you do not want to do anything too vigorous in case you are worried about having a seizure or whatever else might happen. I am not sure whether is this the case with you, but if that’s not then better try exercising. Really hope that soon you’ll have that win.


        • #5

          “Trust me I am really sorry that you’re going through this because I have also went through something similar and my only recommendation for you now would be (trust me I know that it may be hard) to make a gratitude list. This has really helped me in the past when I have been in that funky downer negative thinking mode and I really hope that this might help you either. good luck! “


          Seemorger, you know… I find it funny, however I have been doing just that. In fact, a few days ago I have been telling a small group of people that in case you are feeling down then one of the best things to do then would be to count your blessings that we are all having. it really seem to me that it does help. my biggest and main concern now is getting back to being able to sleep without any drugs.


          Also, Anniand. Thank you for that. i have always had occasionally sleep issues, however a little bit of unisom or some other OTC things always have done the job well and in a short period of time. in fact, I can tell you that an entire pill was way too much for me to take. I remember there has been a time when I have been using approximately 1/8 of the pill and this has knocked me out just fine… oh times. I would really like to be the same because the last time I have taken 2 entire pills along with something else and I was still feeling that it is too little for me so as you can see my tolerance has gone waaaaaaaaay over the edge. Tolerance is the money wench in the works I would say.


          Well… I have started by using low dose naltrexone a couple of three years ago in order to help with my nerve issues and I have noticed that it gave me insomnia. That is why I have went to herbal help which did helped me, however soon later it stopped from working. I have stopped the naltrexone that did helped not at all, however the insomnia never went away and stayed with me. that is why it has been stronger and stronger stuff. I also can say that I am out of the danger of doing something in rash, when I am thinking of ending it all I am just saying “this is only the anti depressant talking” and it is all going away. I am just going to hand on for as long as I can…. I am way too ornery to die young either way so… only the good. besides it is too late for me to die young so might as well die old as sin.


          The last night I have had itches that is why I have taken one hydroxyzine for this which has helped a little bit (very little bit) with the help, however I would need about 6 of them in order to feel anything at all… it has taken me somewhere a good 5 hours or so, however it finally did it and get me some sleep, waking up occasionally too. today I am feeling tired and all wrung out, however I am not feeling that bad as I was thinking that I would feel. I do know very well that more is coming now and I really doubt a lot that I have seen and experienced the worst of it all yet, I am sure that it is awaiting for me. I am going to continue my once per week MJ cookie since I know that it is very good for preventing alzheimers, glaucoma as well as plus to all of that: I do like it. that is why I am going to get at least 1 night’s sleep per week and some day I may even get back to where I need to be. then I am going to have a crap top of the sleep aids that I do not need.


          Lately, I would really want to thank you everybody for the concern shown as I really appreciate it as well as the kind thoughts you have shared here. that’s really supporting and I think it is really great to have a forum where everybody is trying to help each other because you never know, maybe you would find somebody who would give you an advise that you really help you with all you need. I am going to make it through and as I said, luckily I do not need to go to work that is why this is one blessing to count for me, that’s for sure.


          • #6

            So here I am with an update. Since it is the second day I thought I need to write how I feel – I feel more tired than the first day. which has been pretty expected. I had hoped that it would get only a tiny bit easier each night, however wish in one hand. I have to say that my face is getting a matched set of luggage as well as I get a feeling of sand under the eyelids. My irritability is going to have to be watched as much as I see due to the fact that I really do not want to go ballistic over some harmless thing… if you understand me.


            Today I have also found myself thinking maybe only a little bit of something mild now and then it would be fine. I do realize that this is only backsliding kind of thinking, however in case I have to be somewhere and to do something that might be a reasonable excuse, I mean a really good enough reason to take a little of valerian root or something that night before. In case that stuff actually still would work I would really not have any problems.


            But. There’s something else which makes me… concerned. As bad as it may be currently, I can only imagine how it is going to be 20 years from now on when I am on 2 mg of halcion or on 3 mg of xanax only to get some sleep. Thinking about what might be in 20 years that’s… truly scary. Don’t you think? or however many mgs since the tolerance is never stopping from progressing and growing more and more. or it does? (although it does not seem so)


            But there’s one thing that makes me do it and it is the fact that in case I am not going to be able to do it now then I’m sure that I would never be able to do it so I have to accumulate all the will power, energy and the rest to do it now. then I am having a fridge that it is full of sleepy crap that it is saying “just tonight have a real nights sleep”. Or maybe I should toss it all out? don’t you think? and then that humiliation of ordering even more and to pay for the express delivery… I am too savings conscious to throw out good stuff.


            • #7

              Hello there Olcou, I really hope that what I am going to tell here is going to help you a bit. There is an insomnia technique that it is called deliberate sleep deprivation. I guess you might have heard about it. but you haven’t then search for it. I’m going to try to explain. you stay busy (as you have already mentioned, do not drive in case you are sleep deprived) and do some light exercise, garden, chores, and also find work around the house, stay busy, dejunk and so on and so forth. Once more…. it is all only some light stuff.


              So well, you can deliberately stay up until somewhere 12 PM or so (maybe even later) and only get in bed and get up (or simply just lie there in case you are not sleeping calmly as you are able). I would really suggest you some DVD’s in case you would find interesting or full cable /dish TV as that is truly amazing to keep you busy with the shows / movies and you really do not just lie there dwelling how the fact that you are not able to sleep which leads to even more : “I can’t sleep and it’s getting frustrating”. You are associating insomnia with watching shows that you are really very interesting in (TV deprivation).


              Actually, used to think that not sleeping has been just awful and would really provoke anxiety for me over not getting any sleep at all. I have to say that this is totally a false statement. What really has helped me: a lot famous over achievers are getting only 4 or even less hours of sleep per night and they are building an empire – some may add in some all nighters to get the work done. I personally do not recommend this but it is still reassuring to know this.


              Or I would also watch those military shows and how the weeding out of the process of the special OPS is involving the lack of sleep for a week or so (with approximately 30 minutes or so per day) and yet, they are still doing all that heavy exercises that they are required (heavy exercise hours per day and not sleeping is definitely not recommended here but still – you’ve gotta know it).


              Or there are also a lot of survival shows where those people have had to stay awake for days on end without sleeping or sometimes even resting and once again with maximum 30 minutes per day.


              Going without a lot of sleep and to remain calmingly busy is usually going to last not more than 3 or maybe 4 days. but no more than 4 days. I am have been wondering how much longer it would go on (during a withdrawal from some sleep medication) and I have then finally fell asleep without very much effort (in fact, nearly without any effort at all) on the fifth day. at that point, a pretty considerable smaller amount of your medication that you are choosing to use should be pretty much effective this time around. In my personal opinion you should not get rid of any medications that you are having, that is why it is hard to replace now, however this is your call on that.


              And also in my opinion it is good that you do not drive and I would also recommend you not to make any big decisions about anything as you are going to feel so lack of sleep spaced out. you might even at one point not even feel like doing anything at all but the computer stuff or something in this matter. I would tell you that this is fine – you know your limits better. and even if you don’t then your body is going to tell you about them.


              Also, I would follow the “get a professional help” advise. Check with your doctor about any exercise questions in case it is applicable, but a professional help really might help you. I wish you good luck an di really hope you’re going to have some success. just hang in there. you’ll be fine.


              • #8

                Hey Olcou1960, I only wanted to let you know that you are here you are not alone and I am sure that worldwide there are a lot of us when it is coming to have issues with getting some sleep. I really have had some trouble since I have been a child but now I am having an 23 years old son that it is having the same exact problem either. I am now having to rely on Xanax in order to finally get some sleep because that’s my only chance and I really do not like it at all. either way, you should know that I am sending you positive thoughts on your way and I really really hope that they would reach you and you’ll all be fine soon. just hang in there and hope success would reach you. best wishes and best of luck.


                • #9

                  Hey there Olcou, I wanted to ask you how it is your activity level currently doing? Everything’s fine? obviously, no sleep = no energy and I do know it well, however it is certainly that what ever you can do physically it si going to help you out. trust me I do know very well (unfortunately) this feeling when you are so tired that you get to the point when you’re literally too tired to go to sleep. I then have found out that I have to get out of the bed, I would sit up read, watch tv, listen to music and sometimes even talk to radio or tv would bore me to sleep, as it has been said by popo, also do not discard your medication or other aids as you never know when… also it is difficult to replace them.


                  My insomnia led me to watch such shows that I never thought they even exist so… either way, I really hope a lot that you are going to get some rest soon. wish you the best sleep.


                  • #10

                    Hey there, have you looked at, now do not all shout at the hippy kind of comment please, LOL, but have you tried any of the sound healing techniques??? I mean, if you haven’t then I think you should because they really might help. if you haven’t then you really never know whether it is going to help you or not. I do know that there are about 5 or maybe 6 frequencies that are relating to the human body, 528 hz is the balance as much as I can remember, it is right in the middle and this could maybe help to calm you down to your sleep, I think that there is an insomnia one either. there is idoser software or a lot of you tube videos that you should check them all out. I think that you may need to go through a few of them in order to find a good one and there is either the straight tone or the blended in with music, you should use one that it is having a good rating though. I personally have had a positive experience with it, however I now fear that I would become a tie dye, patchouli smelling, grateful dead espousing the vegetarian duuuuh duh. Oh no, I did feel calm afterwards. I really think that you should give it a try out mate. After all, you only try, surely you have nothing to lose and I think nothing else to do. all you lose is just a lot of time, pretty much what (I guess) you need to lose now.


                    And yeah, by the way, I do not intend to offend anybody, I really like hippies and I would like to talk to one so I’m sorry if offended, it was just a joke.


                    • #11

                      Hi everyone again, it is the 3rd day. all I want to do right now (of course besides sleeping), is to sit there with eyes closed because that’s the only way when they do not burn. Now, from all that lack of sleep, even standing up really seem to be like too much work for me. in fact, writing this is an effort for me. I barely write it. I barely see what I write here. I do agree that exercise is good, it really is, however bad ankle is stopping much walking and the back issues I have are making other things very hard for me to accomplish either. I am just sitting in here and I think that I really need to exercise, however I can’t. that’s such a situation when even raising my arm now is requiring concentration and seem that raising both my arms is impossible now.


                      The last night I have stayed up for hours just sitting there in the dark and I was hoping that I would finally feel sleepy and I would, maybe, finally, get some sleep. I was baarely falling asleep, but right before going into the “sleep mode” there has been a dream that woke me up and I could not go back to sleep anymore. that made me mad at this entire world. Is there somebody who has said that the 5th day should be better yes?? Really hope so. It really seems to me like any kind of withdrawal that it is letting you sleep could not be any worse than this and might be even easier, not sure though.


                      Staub… you hippie… I am an old hippie myself and I really do not even look like one, but I still am. gotta say that I really do not understand at all that hate toward the hippies that the younger people really seem to have. but I know that most of them are having no clue at all. they are smoking pot, they are demonstrating against greed, they are growing long hair and they are hating on hippies. I really think that there should be somebody who should hold up  a mirror, however it would really not going to do any good at all… I guesss. Unfortunately there has never been a hate on beatniks trend. In fact, not unfortunately… but kind of strange.


                      I have been too tired to go to sleep from the get go. currently I have reached that stage of tiredness when I am too tired to care if I ever sleep. I’m to tired to care about anything… in fact. I know that there’s one very interesting act and it is that the sleep deprivation is very often chasing away depression. I really do not recommend it due to the fact that the cure may be worse than the disease and it is only lasting until you are getting sleeping regularly once again. once again, the fifth day you tell me? gonna wait for it.


                      • #12

                        Hey there Olcou, yes it is true, you definitely still want to rest even if you are not fretting over falling asleep the whole night. I think that it really may not be such a bad idea to focus and concentrate all your energy away from falling asleep onto just being restful during the night time (veggin’ out) and to try to be as active as it is possible before doing that, which is pretty much as the popo has been saying there. in this way you are not going to mess up completely your circadian rhythms and whatnot. I would recommend you not to go for all out sleep deprivation due to the fact that it is having bad effects of its own either.


                        As far as exercising when your body it is not really primed for it, I would really say walk at an accelerated pace for approximately 30 to 40 minutes. Or more if you want to. and I would recommend you: do not ever bother by doing jogging or by lifting weights or anything in this matter. I guess that you do, most likely, want to do some running kind of stretching after 5 or about 10 minutes in order to be sure that your muscles are being warmed up. sometimes, a sore ankle is something that you are actually getting from better from exercise, even though I really do not know all for sure whether this is the case for you or it is not.


                        Either way, reading all these comments you really kind find some really good tips here, definitely. The only experience with insomnia is when it is being induced from some drugs, it really seem to me like we have got some seasoned vets of the world of insomnia down here. but, there’s one thing that I really can relate more (much more than the insomnia, at least) and it is the fact that you are experiencing the big lack of energy. While I really do have a little bit of insomnia all the time now, I really have a late schedule that is why I really do not have to go to sleep. I can say that you really need to take this advantage of the fact that you are not working now, it is like this lack of work is special for your timing now and you really do not need to worry very much about logging hours of the sleepy time. just worrying about feeling better.


                        • #13

                          hey there mate, I, as well as a lot of others here I’m sure, know just how nasty a detox period can really be, however after the first week you really should start seeing some improvement slowly slowly and by the end of the second week you should be feeling noticeable better. I have thought that you were doing something else that is why I have deleted my first reply, it is the issue now that you are trying to quit the tablets?


                          And by the way: Do sound like a little bit of hippy don’t I? LOL. Oh well, as I have said, I quite like (a lot) the ideals from the 60s and 70s and to be honest I would really like to have been there. lived there. I guess I would be a good “participant” then


                          • #14

                            oh yeah Staub, I have been taking a smorgas board of some different things. I have been thinking that I could outweigh the tolerance stuff in case I would take a lot of different things. and not only some different antihistamines, since they do work on one or maybe 2 receptors only, however there are also other things that are working on some other receptors as well. I have been taking something different every single night (I guess I said it once, no?). the Monday it might be primidone with doxepin, on Tuesday Seroquel along with tizanidine or maybe with etizolam, on Wednesday it might be amitriptyline with clonidine, on Thursday it could have been olanzapine with something tossed in. then later on Friday it has been Neurontin with mirtazapine and then later on Saturday it has been thorazine with most likely zolpide and on Sunday was reefer cookie day with sometimes some phenibut.


                            And on the top of all o that I might toss in some hydroxyzine as well or maybe baclofen or whatever else if what I has been taking did not seem to work for me. instead of trying to dodge the tolerance bullet, I have been getting tolerance to everything that exists on this freaking planet. After so much drugs taken and so much failures I have gave up, I have stopped to search for some new things due to the fact that I knew for sure that it would either not work at all or would work for only a little bit. I did have tried the magic bullet zolpidem (everybody is calling it) not so long ago and it did have worked a little bit in the beginning (which has already been expected) but after a few times it has been useless by itself (which also has been expected pretty much) but I have to tell you (for those who don’t know) that thing is not cheap at all.


                            I did have read about those people who are using the same stuff for every single night for some years and they are having no issues at all, this really seem to be only a dream for me. something impossible. Something that I would really like to have myself. I one would get sleepy, however damn if I could drop off… they would only get me half the way there and that’s it. I do know that it is sounding like a beatle tone right now… day tripper and night time zombie.


                            What I have noticed (not sure if that’s really true or it is just me who cannot understand what’s going on with me) is that I seem to have more energy later in the day than earlier. not sure why. What is working the best is to relax all of the part of my body. and after that I am trying to focus only on my breathing and not to think about anything interesting at all. just think and focus and concentrate etc. etc. only exclusively on my breathing. After approximately one minute or so I have been off and I was thinking about some stressful things and back to the relaxation and to the breathing method. after approximately 100 repeats or maybe even more, I have been getting somewhat a liiiiittle bit sleepy. I have done that with those medicines too in order to make them working better, at least trying very hard to do so. But at this moment this is all that I have got… unfortunately. Yeah… that one and a pretty nice baked potato for the dinner.


                            But in the end it is true, I am not depressed at all right now, I can feel it well. the sleep deprivation really does do this for you. thinking about this a bit… even the devil is for some good for something, in the end… I guess. like this evil that’s following me, maybe in the end… everything is for greater great? Really hope so.


                            I wish you good luck to those people out there that are having sleeping issues like I do. stay strong bothers. Try not to get into the vicious cycle of the more and more and stronger and stronger drugs like I did, I guess that this has done it all even worse.


                            • #15

                              Hello there Olcou again, are you on the 4th day now, isn’t it?? I was just wondering how your thing were going? I would like to know how are you by now? did you got some sleep?