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  • #16

    Hey there all. that’s very good for me to read. I’m glad that I found you all. I’ve got to say that I am currently on my second day of waking up in the middle of the night now. of course I don’t like it, and I also don’t like to use anything, but I did, I have been using muscle relaxers in order to go back to sleep and that’s pretty annoying. Thinking about it… I definitely need to start exercising, running or at least walking and I also have to start to read my book once again. they would definitely help me out. there is too much board life, too much personal drama as well as too much food… of course, when there’s personal drama it can’t go without too much food. As usual.
    Somehow I need to find some peace, doesn’t really matter how, I am even starting to think about yoga. This is what is waking me up, it is this feeling of distress, the feeling like I have not addressed something very and very important. besides, you know, there is something extremely weird that I still cannot understand and it is the fact that when there is a full moon, I am almost always waking up and that’s even though my room is nearly completely dark without any “moon light” or whatever else. don’t you find it weird? I think that’s odd but since full moon can affect dogs / wolfs, isn’t it affecting us, humans, too? does this happen to anybody else too? or I am alone like this? maybe I am having a bit of werewolf in my, perhaps? And although I’m not transforming in one, I can feel that there’s something wrong.

     

    Going off trying to sleep until there’s not a full moon) and yeah… hope that I did not hijack. Best wishes.

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    • #17

      Hello there tameeka and thank you for posting. That was by no means a hijack, it was very interesting. As you, I also think that the full moon is definitely affecting people in some strange way that we cannot explain, yet. I have read an article by a scientists that was supposedly “debunking” this theory since it is smacking of astrology, isn’t it? however, I am pretty sure about one thing… if you’re going to talk with somebody who’s responsible of “being peace” like for example an long time cop, or a psych worker and so on and so forth, I am pretty sure that they would tell you that it is getting oddly crazy around that time when there’s full moon. People’s senses or whatever are going crazy.

       

      Indeed, exercise is good for what ails you. for the back spasms you should try a heading pad which may help. I am getting pains in the middle of my back that it is surely waking me out of a sound sleep. In case I am using the pad for like an hour or so in the evening I have noticed that I have some less problems at night. there are sometimes when I need it right in the morning when I just get up and they also do help. generally it seems to me that heating pads are good for a lot of things, you should try it out.
      Also, popo, yeah, now it is the 4th day. but I have to say that I really do feel a little bit better today. yeah I did got some sleep, even a bit more last night and I got to sleep a little bit sooner. It really seems to me that I am winning and this is so comforting! I still have to endure a lot as I have not won since I am still feeling wrung out, however I think that if I can concentrate enough I could even drive the short distance to the store, although I don’t want to risk.

       

      I can tell you guys… there’s nothing that can could make you feel more virtuous that overcoming that nasty habit like those pills. that’s… amazing. while sitting here in front of the computer I was searching for these kind of stories, of course, and I have heard that benzos are even harder to kick as well as tramadol is very very hard either. I’ve seen that opiates can mess up somebody big time, however I have been discussing with some ex junkies and they all have said that kicking junk has been the easy part, cigarettes were just waaaaay too hard to quit. And even so, people are quitting this bad habit either. which leads me to the thought that there’s nothing impossible, is it? 

       

      I am having a lot of stuff on the way that it is taking its time. maybe I am going to get lucky enough this time too and it is going to be sent back by customs and I am going to be able to get a refund but if this won’t happen then I would have to look at it and fight with myself.

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      • #18

        Hey there Olcou, that’s truly great that you have got some sleep, hope you’ll win!

         

        Sitting down when you are reaching the exhaustion point is pretty fine, that it is actually pretty resting. I one should have reiterated by the 4th day or maybe even sooner for some you become almost like a walking zombie – you are just schelping around however I still have tried to stay lightly busy and I would sit down a little bit more. however I was still aiming for the bedtime later with the tv on.

         

        Even if you do want to rest your eyes (and I do know that you want) then you still need to have something on, that you are going to listen to. I would really recommend you not to sit or lie there all alone only with your thoughts (unless you really like that which I doubt, but who knows?)

         

        Besides, you are definitely right about the fact that the true exhaustion is taking away the depression and it is taking away even anxiety too. it is pretty much a survival mechanism, you should read about it and thought how true. let me give you an example on this one (but those who are snake phobics be aware): you are starting a hike and are wary of any snakes around the trail. You are getting lost and then after a couple of days of wandering you could care much less about the snakes and then finally you are collapsing in the grass and you are getting some sleep while you are totally obvious and aware about the snakes there. you are getting rescued and then eventually fear snakes on trail once again along with maybe this possibility of getting lost, this is a built in thing I would say.

         

        Also, with your ankle and back you could like a program like for example Tai Chi (some light flowing exercise) that you could change for your need. You should try it out, I guess. don’t forget to keep us posted and updated. We’re all interested here, I guess. at least I am.

         

        Also, it is pretty funny, tameeka I am about to (after forcing wakefulness until about 11 or 12) go and watch “werewolf” the movie which is having a great opening shot of a full moon. So want to stay awake for such a fantastic movie, however fall asleep pretty quickly. Only half of the zolpidem tablet is working with this method.

         

        I did have had insomnia recently and I have realized that I was not going to fall asleep that is why I have watched the entire movie (that I really love and I did deep breathing exercises as well) and I have got only our hours of sleep. The next night I have slept better.

         

        And yeah, it is obvious that typing all these long posts here on the forums (by the way, isn’t there a word limit?? I was wondering if I would reach it and so far – I haven’t) or some long emails is making me and I guess all of the readers, sleepy.

        Comment


        • #19

          Hey there. I am thinking that it is exhaustion that it is making me not to sleep. A week of making social, medical and educational decision for my daughter. Having kids it is the greatest responsibility on this earth. She is currently at such a critical age.

           

          However I have one night down, almost sleeping through the entire night and I have been feeling a lot more better today until I had to do some more medical stuff with her that was physically causing her pain. And I also have to explain my thought process to those much more educated people than me.

           

          However she survived, I have passed and now I tis time to go to sleep. We have made good progress. Wish me good luck everybody, really hope I’m gonna get some. Being able to sleep has been always my saving grace and one of the most “restful” things. I am really asking the god not take it away from me this time.

           

          Popo, a word limit? no, I guess, not, and I really hope that there are not because it is pretty much like my survival technique. Wish you all good luck and hope we’re all going to get sleep.

          Comment


          • #20

            hey there everyone again. the last night I did woke up, however I did not take any pills, all I have done was to lie down and to count my breaths and the amazing part it is that it did worked. I owe this change in behavior to you and your thread that is why I really want to say a big thank you for this.
            and yeah, I am sorry Olcou if I have been insensitive to say that I am usually sleeping well..

             

            by the way, I have been searching information about the fact of that “little werewolf” living in me and the full moon affecting people that is why I have found an article about this. due to the fact that we are not able to post links here, I have thought that it would be a good idea to post it right here so you could read it. I really hope that you are going to find as interesting as I did when reading it. sometimes I really need to read something like this because it helps me to realize once again and to see how small we actually are in the scheme of the world. Honestly, I have not understood all of it, approximately 90 % only, but it was very enough for me to be impressed and to really like it. so, hope you would like it.

             

            "The ocean tides mirror life itself. Their ebb and flow pay homage to the cyclic nature of the cosmos along even the most secluded seashores. But is life itself also ultimately a fluke of the tides?

             

            If so, life may ultimately owe its origins to our serendipitously large moon. The sun and wind also drive the ocean's oscillations, but it is the moon's gravitational tug that is responsible for the lion's share of this predictable tidal flux.

             

            Our current Earth–moon system, according to the prevailing theory of lunar formation, reflects our solar system's early game of planetary billiards, when colliding planetary embryos created entirely new versions of themselves—in the case of our own planet, a disproportionately large natural satellite in close orbit.

             

            It all started some 4.5 billion years ago when, as theory has it, our nascent Earth was blindsided by a Mars-size planetary embryo, believed to have spun Earth into its initial fast rotation of roughly 12 hours per day. The molten mantle thrown into orbit after the catastrophic lunar-forming impact quickly coalesced into our moon. Within a few thousand years, Earth cooled to an object with a molten surface and a steam atmosphere. Life emerged some 700 million years later, or about 3.8 billion years ago.

             

            But four billion years ago a cooling Earth already had an ocean, but remained barren. The moon was perhaps half as distant as it is now, and as a result, the ocean tides were much more extreme.

             

            At an average distance of 235,000 miles (380,000 kilometers), the moon is currently receding from Earth at a rate of 1.5 inches (3.8 centimeters) per year. As it does, Earth's own spin rate is slowing. And, in the process, roughly 1020 joules of gravitational energy is shed into the oceans annually.*

             

            Over the eons, all that energy has had an evolutionary impact.

             

            "The oceans' tidal flow helps transport heat from the equator to the poles," says Bruce Bills, a geodynamicist at the NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif.

             

            "Without the lunar tides, it's conceivable that climate oscillations from the ice age to the interglacial would be less extreme than they are. Such glaciations caused migrations of animal and plant species that probably helped speed up speciation."

             

            Bills also points out that such tidal heat transfer could have also mitigated climate fluctuations. The problem in determining which ""tidal forcing"" scenario is correct, he says, is that climate researchers currently lack data spanning extremely long timescales. Even so, Peter Raimondi, an ecologist at the University of California, Santa Cruz, says the tools of evolution are also driven by the tides' influence on these intertidal regions.

             

            "In a rocky intertidal area," Raimondi says, "it's very clear there are strong evolutionary pressures brought on by a changing environment over a short spatial scale. Without our moon, our marine environment would be much less rich in terms of species diversity."

             

            But is the influence of the lunar tides actually responsible for life itself?

             

            If life originated around deep ocean hydrothermal vents (so-called black smokers), then the lunar tides played a minor role, if any, says James Cowen, a biogeochemical oceanographer at the University of Hawaii at Manoa. If, however, life originated in tidal waters, he says, then tidal cycles could have played a major role.

             

            *CORRECTION (4/23/09): An earlier version stated that three terawatts (3 TW) are shed into the oceans annually; 3 TW is the measure of the power dissipated continually."

             

            I have to say that this is not the entire article. I only have posted the “most important” out of it. I guess. but if you’re truly interested in reading the entire article you would need to search on the scientificamerican site. hope you enjoyed it.

            Comment


            • #21

              Hello Olcou, there are a lot of guys that are saying that MM is making them worse, however it is helping me too. find it levels out my temp swings, it is helping me to relax, to take away the anxiety, it is numbing the pains, helping me to sleep and the appetite.

               

              For me I have found out that it is approximately the 8th day or so when you are starting to feel even remotely human again, however it is going to be different from one to another, I suppose because it is pretty much depending on each and what it has been that they were taking and for how long and their general condition and so on and so forth.

               

              A lot of warm baths have always helped me either, not just with the aches, but you are going to feel maybe a bit better in the mind too when you are going to be clean. I really hope that this time is not going to feel like it is too much for you mate. Best wishes.

              Comment


              • #22

                hello there OP, I really do feel your pain, for me coming of opiates and benzos cold turkey it has been hell of a week, full of pains, depression, diarrhea, weakness, exhaustion, and approximately 3 or maybe 4 hours of sleep all together as well as a very big loss of appetite. Generally I’ve been having a life that I would not want to experience ever again. I doubt that it can be worse. The good news is that your body is going to get used to going with out the medications and then adapt to it and you’ll feel all fine without anything. Personally for me, while I have been using I was sleeping like a baby every single night, however as soon as the medications are cleaned out completely out of your system and you are getting over the withdrawals you are going to sleep much much much much much better…. believe me, you are going to feel amazing after that. after that you may still have a little bit of sleep issues because everybody is different, however it is going to be a lot more easier. Besides, you could try some other things like for example exercising, yoga, reading and so on and so forth in order to help you to sleep better. these things really help. try walking in the morning. Doing yoga later. then running a bit (if possible) then again yoga. Later in the night do a hot bath and after that read. This might help a bit. hope it will. I wish you good luck and to everybody else who is dealing with this problem. I do know that it can be very hard and very bad but you can do it.

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                • #23

                  Olcou, that is very good that you did not turn to benzos for getting sleep, that’s amazing! I have been sure that it was a part of your combination. this was what most of my advised has been based on… benzo withdrwal.

                   

                  I am honestly very glad that you have managed and found the strength to stay away from them as this would be a lot more harder otherwise. Besides, I do think that it is fair to say that the 5 th day is when you are going (or at least should) START feeling better. that’s a huge difference because you only should start. I personally have had only mild benzo withdrawals especially if comparing to what other people are going through (I do know…), however it has taken me approximately 2 weeks or so to actually feel normal again (normal more or less…). but the 5 days would be only when I have just started to feel a bit more normal than I have been feeling in the past. I am not trying to be pessimistic here at all, I was always kind of a positive person, however I just want to let you know that if you are thinking something like: oh hey, it is the 5th day now and why I am not feeling THAT different? Because you are just getting started to feel a bit different and better than before.

                   

                  And yeah, by the way, I have also tried this strategy of constantly and continuously switching drugs in order to reduce the tolerance. As you, I have also had like a “circle of drugs” which were going around. However I have also found out that it does not work very well overall, it is not so helpful in reducing the tolerance. However, most of what you have been using it is not highly addictive. But even so, any of the sleeping medications is dependence inducing to a small degree… as you already know, I guess.

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                  • #24

                    Hey all. thank you for your replies. really appreciate. Also, tameeka, thank you for your article about that. really enjoyed reading it. so well, it is the day 5.

                     

                    I did have slept better the last night and that’s giving me even more hope and confidence that I will win. Today I still woke up feeling better, however I was still tired and wrung out. it is pretty much like I am recovering here from an illness or something. Or at least that’s how I feel. Do not try this in case you are having a job that you really want (or need) to keep. Better talk to your boss if that’s the case. Tell him (her) that you need a week off because a weekend is definitely not going to do the trick, you are going to need an entire week for that and I really hope that it is going to be enough (because it might not be as I am now in my 5 th day and I can’t guarantee that the 7 th day I would feel amazingly (or at least normal).

                     

                    The good side is that the lack of sleep, not only the tiredness itself, is going to knock out the depression. besides, I also did not feel any anxiety at all now, that is why it is very likely that this is true either. so well, I guess that this is pretty much like an accident only, I happen to be a practitioner of tai chi, and I have been for many years now. it is truly having a lot of benefits. Amazingly is the fact that today I am not feeling any depression and no nervousness, maybe that is cured already? Hope so a lot. and maybe it is going to start to rain money….

                     

                    I am going to take something at times in case I am going to feel stressed out or excited at the bedtime. However, not every single night to the entire week, generally as rare as possible. In case I have a pretty hard time to get to sleep I just need to remember this week and I really won’t be considering any pills if I am going to think about them again.

                     

                    And yeah, I think that there is an pretty interesting factoid and it is that 2 things have always worked for me. the pot cookie as well as using Neurontin with mirtazapine. Not sure why but by somehow of miracle, I have never had to up the dose. In case everything worked that well I really could stay with it. however I am pretty sure that in case I took those all during the entire week they would stop from working either quickly. The reason why I say so is because one time I did have tried a pot cookie twice per week and it really seemed not to have the exact same effect on my sleep this time so I doubt that it would keep the efficacy if for example I would use it 3 times or even 4 times a week for say a month… I doubt that then it would have any efficacy at all.

                    Comment


                    • #25

                      hey there. I am not a very big expert in all of this so I won’t be taking much of your time, there’s only one question I have but I do realize that it could be irrelevant or unhelpful, however I still think that I need to ask you this: have you tried simply to consume a dose of Nyquil before you are going to sleep? This thing has really helped me a lot from time to time when I needed to get some sleep but I could not due to the fact that I have been having some problems with anxiety. Nyquil has worked amazingly on me so I have been thinking that it might work on you the same? If it won’t (or if you have already tried it and it didn’t), I am sorry I took your time.

                      Comment


                      • #26

                        hey there mate, I do know that you are going to feel like doing this, however I can guarantee that this is going to help you out a lot. exercising. Long exhausting exercise of some kind. This is the only thing that it is helping with my insomnia (a lot) and it is pretty much the only thing that is doing it, other things all failure to help me. using medications for sleep is really a very bad habit in order to get into as you seem to know it, your body is very quickly developing a tolerance to whatever drug you are trying to use that is why you start to double up the dose and then to tripe it up and then you are going to have to look for some stronger chemicals and then to raise up the dosage of those stronger chemicals either until you find yourself unable to sleep without medications at all and unable to sleep WITH them either. you should look for some natural ways, however I am very sure here that you have already heard about this in the past. You should look into joining a gym or something, or finding an exercise program that you can do at your home becaue there are a lot of programs for everybody and it does not matter how old you are, how out of shape you are o over weight you might be or whatever else might be. but by doing so you are going see how amazing you are going to feel and to sleep, you are going to have a much better sleep, believe me. I really hope very much that this is going to be helpful for you, but if you are going to do everything as I said I am pretty sure that you are going to find it so helpful. everybody finds exercising helpful.

                        Comment


                        • #27

                          And yeah, tameeka I wanted to also add here something else, that has been an very interesting article. I have read it once again and I thought that I need to let you know how interesting it was. I am very glad that one of my little suggestions have helped you a bit. also, do not forget to try the heating pad in case you are having the back discomfort (have you used it?).

                           

                          I have to say that I did not use any benzos exactly, however it has been on the track to do it. I have taken etizolam which has benzo like effects as well as zopiclone which is pretty related as well. but I think that it has been only a matter of time. frankly, I have been worried about the side effects of all of those drugs, and not only being able to sleep. Seroquel is having dopamine receptor action as does one or 2 others too. I have found out that this can lead to tardive diskenesia and this is not curable. I think that a little insomnia is much less bad than constant twitches, isn’t it?

                           

                          Also, about the Nyquil, I have to say that it is one of those mild things that it is working only for those people who have not tried already everything else.

                           

                          Now, you are saying day 8?? When I am going to get there somebody is going to tell me the day 14 and after when I would reach it there would be somebody who would tell me day 100. I think that I am now enough recovered to go to some placed that I have planned to go today. when you are severely sleep deprived you are having only micro sleeps and must not drive, I know. you are going to nod out for a second or maybe 3 and you are not going to notice it until you wonder why you have pulled out in front of those cars.

                           

                          The old debil had me in his clutches, however I am slipping loose. Thinking a bit about it, I realize that I would most likely going to always have some trouble to sleep now and then, however I decided that there would be no more daily junk anymore. when the valerian and the melatonin is going to start working once again I would MAYBE start using them again, but I would try to do so very rarely. Not use at all if possible. I do know that I need to exercise more in the morning so I would feel more tired at night. yoga might be a good idea. We will see.

                          Comment


                          • #28

                            Hey olcou, I am having nothing to contribute here, sorry (help wise), I really wish that I did and it makes me kind of sad, but I am pretty sure you can do it without my help. I have been waiting for the day 5 post for a while now. I am very glad that you have finally posted it and it does seem that you do better now. I also dare to ask you: it really does seem to be getting a little bit easier, isn’t it? really hope that you are better now and would be even better later.

                            Comment


                            • #29

                              Here’s a few more of my thoughts. Firstly I guess that I should congratulate you with day 5. That’s really success. also, Tai Chi is truly a great practice or discipline. You really should be feeling free to elaborate. I do know that I could google it, however this is not going to give me the personal experience which I think that this is the best. or you really might not, in case you do not feel like it. also, you may know that I am an asker of a lot of question but I am an expector of no answers so it is up to you.

                               

                              You are going to take something sometimes? This pretty much is scaring me, is worrying me that you might get into some trouble. it is only comforting that you do seem to realize that you should not do it often. As soon as you are getting through all of this then you really might want to consider to put a very firm limit like for example 2 times per week by most, or maybe even less. I am not a very big expert so I don’t know. to be honest, I am kind of shocked a bit that your alternating method did not work on the sleeping drugs and I say so because it really seemed like it should in theory. Thank you for that because I think that it is a valuable lesson that we should learn, we need to share with those on this board, as you have done with your thread which is truly helpful.

                               

                              Besides, regarding on the mj stuff, different brands/ strains are being supposed to do different things to a person’s body. not that I am purchasing that (literally or figuratively) but I think that this is one of the advertising claims. I do know when I have used to use in my wilder much younger years, haha, I would sleep like a baby in case i could get away from the post dinner snack food food. However never had any dreams and this for me has been a very nice change. I am just keeping some thoughts here but I think that you need to keep up the good work. You really need to finally find that magic sleeping spot in your brain all alone by yourself without any supplements or medications at all. I really hope a lot that you are almost there, it really does seem to me like you are almost there. I do know that we are all here routing for you, you’re going to have success!! you will win!

                              Comment


                              • #30

                                here is the day 6 and with new changes.

                                 

                                Firstly, popo, sorry for not responding. I just have seen your yesterday message and yeah, thank you for much for asking, yes, I do feel a bit better, today it is the 6th day and I am feeling even better, I am still tired but I am feeling better each day that passes. Pretty sure sooner I would be much better.

                                 

                                Tameeka, I have been introduced to the tai chi a lot of years ago, like 40 years ago or so and I have been doing some of it every single day since the day I was introduced for like 20 years or so. It is very good or balance, for calm, for getting in touch with yourself. I do recommend it to those who have not tried it out. after a while after practicing it you are learning to move energy and it really can be very interesting.

                                 

                                Also, I really appreciate that you care about what I am feeling and planning to do. no, I am not planning to take anything more than 2 times per week and including the pot here. but as I said, even less than that if possible. Most weeks would be nothing else. but I would really try to stick up with those weak stuff like for example melatonin as I said or tryptophan and rarely use it. also, as you, I am surprised too, of course not pleasantly surprised… but what else I can do? I am talking about the alternating sleep medications method did not worked out. I can’t be sure here, hwoever what I can suspect is that they are all overlapping a good bit and when Wikipedia is telling that it is working on a calcium channel blocker and something else it is a sodium channel blocker, they are only guessing as to the action.

                                 

                                Well, what I had read over and over again was the fact that all of these things are having occasional awful side effects. those side effects are ranging from some serious and possibly deadly skin disease to some other little known diseases in general to the well known tardive syndrome as well. I have kept telling that it is only one in one hundred, only one or maybe two in one thousand and it is only happening to those that are taking a very large dose and so on. however, we are all coming down with something fatal sooner or later that is why… why to make your chances even worse? When I have reached that point that I have realized that my strategy it is not working, that I would have to use some larger and larger doses and that any of the new wonder drug is almost surely be a bust, I have then took the decision to finally bit the bullet myself because it was the only way out of this vicious cycle, of this trap. And I did knew that getting through this trap won’t be easy at all.

                                 

                                There’s one thing that it is really strange and I am wondering how it is that for a long time and never understood it… it is the fact that one of the most addictive drugs that are known and possibly it is indeed the most addictive out of them all, it is perfectly legal. I am pretty sure you do know very well what I mean. it is having some very well known health risks and it is implicated in a lot of diseases. However I am sure that our good government is saying this: addictive along with unhealthy along with big payoffs from producers – this must be perfectly legal. In the time there it is some kind of plant that it is not physically addictive, it is having a lot of well known health benefits – it is not legal, it is not allowed and such strict that not even a doctor is able to prescribe it to anybody. not even a laboratory or group of scientists are able to work with it unless they are jumping through 1000 regulatory hoops and pay of the right and “good” politician. I am sure that you do know very well what that one is too. the government is saying: health benefits and it is not addictive and it is opposition from booze and cigarettes makers – that is illegal like nothing else.

                                 

                                Besides, about the moon (sorry about the off topic, as well as the above off topic statement) the moon has been known for millennia has having some effects on humans and mostly, of course, emotional. However the scientist really seem to like to think that they know it all so they scoff. Every generation of the scientists are saying that the previous generation has been full of full, however this time around I think that they have got it right.

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